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Another Family Bereavement

Snips

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Yesterday I took our beloved land cruiser for yet another MoT but unfortunately she failed in dramatic style and it would be a stupid waste of money to keep her going. Everything worked but the underneath is too rotted to make it viable to keep going. Ironically, we had just spent £700.00 and cancelled the first MoT appointment because we had to fit a new front bumper. My wife recently hit a deer and that smashed up the front. This was the second new bumper as I hit a deer ½ a mile away on the same piece of road just two years earlier. That bumper suffered damage when one of us hit a pheasant.

This car took me over a Welsh mountain with normal road tyres - a few of us drove it but only one failed ... a land rover discovery which couldn't make it to base camp :whistle3: We took it to France a number of times. It went through deep floods and both Mrs Snips and I drove it through floods where the water came over the top of the bonnet. Snow, ice and steep fields were a piece of cake. Following skidding range rovers and land rovers was a joy and quite a giggle watching them slip uncontrolled down slippery slopes. Despite using only road tyres, we hardly ever had wheel spin. Everything was electric and nothing failed on the electrics side. All windows were fully electric (hold and forget) and so was the sun roof.

There was a key to start the engine. A pedal for go and a pedal for stop. If you wanted to do anything else there was a switch. Raise or lower the back end when hitching a trailer - press a button. Lock the differential - press a button. Hill descent - press a button. That hill descent was awesome as if it lost control of a wheel or two it would speed up to stop the wheel slipping then slow again, all completely automatically. Fold in the wing mirrors - press a button. And so on. And despite it's age it had a full blown, built in sat nav system which rivalled all modern systems.

We bought it 15 years ago and it never once broke down - the best car we've ever owned.

And, in the words of Top Gear ... "It's not for nothing that this is the choice vehicle of the Taliban!"

She never had a name but I'm stupidly upset that she's going - just like losing a family pet.

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DonS

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You got good use out of it. They do not even sell Land Cruisers in Canada. I had a Highlander for many years, Toyota does a good job.
 

Minor Problem

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Awesome machines! Jim and I hired one for a week in Iceland with studded tyres on it and it laughed at anything an Icelandic winter could throw at it. It was the real hero of our week away.
 

Mj224

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Such a shame, she looks so good above ground. Kinda same happened to my RX8, the underneath was going west alas. But in the end I moved on to my All Electric car (MG).

One point of view says that it might be more eco friendly to repair these older car, saves a new one being made. The counter argument is that a more modern car is more efficient etc. I think I came across a view about the energy input into making a car, and the amount of energy it consumes (fuel) during its life....A whole new topic...
 
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Phill104

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Such a shame, she looks so good above ground. Kinda same happened to my RX8, the underneath was going west alas. But in the end I moved on to my All Electric car (MG).

One point of view says that it might be more eco friendly to repair these older car, saves a new one being made. The counter argument is that a more modern car is more efficient etc. I think I came across a view about the energy input into making a car, and the amount of energy it consumes (fuel) during its life....A whole new topic...
It is an interesting topic though. I often hear “All that electricity come from dirty fossil fuel so it is hardly cleaner.” The same people seem to forget just how much electricity is used in getting the fossil fuel, refining it, pumping it to distributors, pumping it into your car etc. So while it is sad to see a reliable old car go the the recyclers, it does mean something more efficient takes its place.
 

Phill104

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like what?
The engines in those older Toyotas had notoriously low efficiency. Compare that to a more modern engine, or a hybrid and efficiency rating increases substantially. EV too is more efficient but we have yet to see a vehicle that can do what those older 4WD cars do, but they will come.
 

Classicbiker

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The engines in those older Toyotas had notoriously low efficiency. Compare that to a more modern engine, or a hybrid and efficiency rating increases substantially. EV too is more efficient but we have yet to see a vehicle that can do what those older 4WD cars do, but they will come.
Modern cars are very over priced and complex. EV is also a ticking time bomb as the batteries are impossible to recycle and very toxic.
 

Phill104

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Modern cars are very over priced and complex. EV is also a ticking time bomb as the batteries are impossible to recycle and very toxic.
You've obviously been reading the wrong press. I guessed that was coming from your response. In fact, EV batteries of even the last generation are very recyclable. Most go through what is called second life when once they are removed from the car they continue to be used in other environments where a different load curve still meant they are useful for many years. After that over 98% (the hardest parts are those from the petrochemical industry, plastics mainly) of all the materials in their makeup can be recycled, and there is already a very rapidly growing industry doing just that worth many billions. The biggest of these factories is in China but close behind is a new unit in Germany. Many companies are now taking on the task, not just for the packs in cars but for those in mobile devices etc. You only have to look at just how many devices these days are using old Nokia batteries inside. I guarantee you that a trip to your local petrol station where you see all those cheap bluetooth speakers, car warmers and other tat that they will contain second use batteries.

And while to some extent I agree modern cars are complex and expensive for the end user, they do less damage to the environment so it is a trade off as the cost of that damage is huge. We could go back to the simple rust buckets of old, cars that required a spray of easy start every morning to get them going. Cars that required regular doses of the welding gun to hold them together. Cars that ate parts faster than a Texan eats deep fried turkey. People often forget the sound of old ford engines up and down the street struggling to turn over on a cold day. We get none of that now, most servicing is connecting the thing to a computer and an oil change, even less with an EV. Cars last longer now that ever before and many require far less servicing and expenditure.
 

Classicbiker

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You've obviously been reading the wrong press. I guessed that was coming from your response. In fact, EV batteries of even the last generation are very recyclable. Most go through what is called second life when once they are removed from the car they continue to be used in other environments where a different load curve still meant they are useful for many years. After that over 98% of all the materials in their makeup can be recycled, and there is already a very rapidly growing industry doing just that worth many billions. The biggest of these factories is in China but close behind is a new unit in Germany. Many companies are now taking on the task, not just for the packs in cars but for those in mobile devices etc. You only have to look at just how many devices these days are using old Nokia batteries inside. I guarantee you that a trip to your local petrol station where you see all those cheap bluetooth speakers, car warmers and other tat that they will contain second use batteries.

And while to some extent I agree modern cars are complex and expensive for the end user, they do less damage to the environment so it is a trade off as the cost of that damage is huge. We could go back to the simple rust buckets of old, cars that required a spray of easy start every morning to get them going. Cars that required regular doses of the welding gun to hold them together. Cars that ate parts faster than a Texan eats deep fried turkey. People often forget the sound of old ford engines up and down the street struggling to turn over on a cold day. We get none of that now, most servicing is connecting the thing to a computer and an oil change, even less with an EV. Cars last longer now that ever before and many require far less servicing and expenditure.
The wrong press? It depends on what agenda people are trying to push.
Modern cars cost a fortune to fix if they fail, and they do. EV need electricity from somewhere. Nothing comes for free, everything has an impact on the environment in one way or another.

This is probably getting a bit political, that is against forum rules so I'll leave it there
 

Mj224

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Personal transport will always be relatively expensive, 1 person in a 2 ton car FFS........But EV's are only the start to the transport revolution. The progress will be upwards, and the old ICE will certainly be reduced very considerably over the next X years.

I get my electricity from a company that uses sun and wind to produce its products. Thus I feel I am doing my bit in reducing reliance on fossil fuels.

Have a look at this. Its as amusing as it tells the truth...

 

Phill104

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The wrong press? It depends on what agenda people are trying to push.
Modern cars cost a fortune to fix if they fail, and they do. EV need electricity from somewhere. Nothing comes for free, everything has an impact on the environment in one way or another.

This is probably getting a bit political, that is against forum rules so I'll leave it there
Not really political but off topic I suppose. Thing is, we all use lithium batteries in our portable devices and cameras. The portable device industries use of batteries dwarfs everything else.
 

Classicbiker

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I'm pretty sure sun and wind wont produce enough energy to power the contr
Personal transport will always be relatively expensive, 1 person in a 2 ton car FFS........But EV's are only the start to the transport revolution. The progress will be upwards, and the old ICE will certainly be reduced very considerably over the next X years.

I get my electricity from a company that uses sun and wind to produce its products. Thus I feel I am doing my bit in reducing reliance on fossil fuels.

Have a look at this. Its as amusing as it tells the truth...

hmmm funny video...in more ways than one :whistle3:
 

Classicbiker

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Not really political but off topic I suppose. Thing is, we all use lithium batteries in our portable devices and cameras. The portable device industries use of batteries dwarfs everything else.
Yup and as said they are very difficult to deal when they come to end of life, regardless of when this is.
 

Classicbiker

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If you can be bothered watch this. This is my stance on this whole subject
 

Phill104

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Yup and as said they are very difficult to deal when they come to end of life, regardless of when this is.
I have actually seen it first hand. The metals are quite easy to recover, the plastics more complex. The flat EV batteries and the larger round cells are the easiest while the small mobile device cells are more of a challenge. It is especially complicated with the types of cells we use in cameras, no t the cells themselves but the casing and the pcb. Stilll all are now a profitable enterprise. Even here in the UK companies new and old are doing it. This is especially true now as the metals have rapidly increased in price due to the pandemic.

As for your TED talk (although some of the info is long out of date or incorrect) I agree, renewable’s are not the panacea. We need to stop burning stuff, that we do know. We need to reduce population. We need to change our farming and diet. We cannot just carry on as we have been. We need to change in many ways. Which brings us back to the above bereavement, what does it get replaced by, should it be replaced? Sometimes we have to put our beloved out to pasture. Take them into a field and blow them away.
 
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Phill104

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OK if your a vegan I give in :exit:
Not quite, but very close to. Still have a leather steering wheel in my car and still have the odd bit of cheese.
 

Classicbiker

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Not quite, but very close to. Still have a leather steering wheel in my car and still have the odd bit of cheese.
Ah good luck with that then :grin:
 

Classicbiker

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I have actually seen it first hand. The metals are quite easy to recover, the plastics more complex. The flat EV batteries and the larger round cells are the easiest while the small mobile device cells are more of a challenge. It is especially complicated with the types of cells we use in cameras, no t the cells themselves but the casing and the pcb. Stilll all are now a profitable enterprise. Even here in the UK companies new and old are doing it. This is especially true now as the metals have rapidly increased in price due to the pandemic.

As for your TED talk (although some of the info is long out of date or incorrect) I agree, renewable’s are not the panacea. We need to stop burning stuff, that we do know. We need to reduce population. We need to change our farming and diet. We cannot just carry on as we have been. We need to change in many ways. Which brings us back to the above bereavement, what does it get replaced by, should it be replaced? Sometimes we have to put our beloved out to pasture. Take them into a field and blow them away.
With regards to not burning stuff etc how are we going to convince China to do any the things you advocate? I would assume their carbon footprint is rather large and growing very fast.

Regarding replacing the Land cruiser. That's down to price and what its used for? My wife has a petrol Volvo XC60, to replace it with an electric one it would cost starting at £53,000 for, hybrid.
 

Phill104

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With regards to not burning stuff etc how are we going to convince China to do any the things you advocate? I would assume their carbon footprint is rather large and growing very fast.

Regarding replacing the Land cruiser. That's down to price and what its used for? My wife has a petrol Volvo XC60, to replace it with an electric one it would cost starting at £53,000 for, hybrid.
China is an odd one. They are simultaneously using bucket loads of fossil fuels whilst also being by far the fastest county on the planet moving towind and solar. They also have the most EVs by a very long way. Two of their biggest cities have all but banned new number plates for anything but EVs (you have to own a number plate there before you can buy a car, even second hand). On top of that, many Chinese cities have replace all their busses and taxis with EV versions which has massively improved air quality. The drivers love them and the operators have found they have increased profits as well as instead of having c18% of vehicles off road for repairs now have <2% off road due to increased reliability. It has worked out very well for them. In China EVs can be had very cheaply too. New ones cost less than their ICE equivalent starting at under £3K. While China do a shed load wrong, they do also get a lot right.

As for EV ownership, try this video -


For company car drivers it is a no brainier as BIK tax is almost non existent.
 

Classicbiker

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China is an odd one. They are simultaneously using bucket loads of fossil fuels whilst also being by far the fastest county on the planet moving towind and solar. They also have the most EVs by a very long way. Two of their biggest cities have all but banned new number plates for anything but EVs (you have to own a number plate there before you can buy a car, even second hand). On top of that, many Chinese cities have replace all their busses and taxis with EV versions which has massively improved air quality. The drivers love them and the operators have found they have increased profits as well as instead of having c18% of vehicles off road for repairs now have <2% off road due to increased reliability. It has worked out very well for them. In China EVs can be had very cheaply too. New ones cost less than their ICE equivalent starting at under £3K. While China do a shed load wrong, they do also get a lot right.

As for EV ownership, try this video -


For company car drivers it is a no brainier as BIK tax is almost non existent.
I guess we could play YouTube video ping pong for quite some time. I think we will have disagree on some things with a little common ground thrown in. Most rational people what the world to be a better place, however agenda, politics, religion, greed, indoctrination etc. Will always get in the way. The world does not need us, we need it. It will shrug us off like a bug and just keep spinning regardless. :peace:
 

Phill104

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I guess we could play YouTube video ping pong for quite some time. I think we will have disagree on some things with a little common ground thrown in. Most rational people what the world to be a better place, however agenda, politics, religion, greed, indoctrination etc. Will always get in the way. The world does not need us, we need it. It will shrug us off like a bug and just keep spinning regardless. :peace:
I totally agree. We will probably wipe ourselves out as a species at some point and the planet will recover but forever changed because of our existence.
 

Mj224

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I totally agree. We will probably wipe ourselves out as a species at some point and the planet will recover but forever changed because of our existence.
For "probably", read "Definitely"..............:(
 
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