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New Competition!

Snips

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Photography Forum League Table (PFLT)

Important: This is completely separate to all the other competitions on the forum and is NOT going to replace Image of the Month or Image of the Week in particular.

A new competition for the forum is to be launched soon. There will be a league table updated fairly frequently and members will gain points during the competition – as long as they enter it. Beginners, please keep reading as there is a free prize for you as an incentive for you to join in too!

This competition is for every forum member of whatever standard of photography you are and over the course of time there will be all sorts of genres from landscape to macro, action and so on.

Points will be awarded in a variety of ways with the more difficult challenges receiving more points. In essence though you will receive points for entering a photograph and/or winning the challenge.

The number of photographs entered by the members (only one image each for most challenges) will be added up and each member who has entered will gain that many points irrespective of how well they do or don’t do in the challenge. For example, if 15 people enter then each member who has entered will receive 15 points.

First prize will receive 10 points, Second 7 points and Third 4 points.
A tie for first will result in both members receiving 10 points each and the third place will receive 4 points. Sometimes more points will be available for the winners perhaps down to 5th Place – it will depend on the challenge. If the competition proves to be popular the number of winning places and points might be increased.

Judging will be varied, sometimes undertaken by just a couple of (unknown) Moderators and sometimes by the whole forum as we normally judge – it will depend on the challenge.

Sometimes you will be required to enter more than one image for a challenge so if it’s three images and eleven people enter, 33 points will be given out to each member who has entered.

Rules for entering, deadline, number of points awarded, judging and so on will be given in each challenge – the EXIF of the entries must be readable and all photographs must be taken AFTER the challenge is announced.

More difficult and time consuming challenges will receive more points. In addition, two challenges might run concurrently as one or two of the challenges might require a good 3-4 weeks or longer to allow members to organise their diaries to photograph the images so an easier interim challenge might well be set too.

The league table will open soon and run until shortly before Christmas and if successful another League Table will be started in 2022. The winner of this year’s league will be mentioned at the Annual Photography Awards next year.

BEGINNERS!!! Free Prize!!!

You are actively encouraged to enter and the best Beginner Photograph for each challenge will receive a FREE 9” x 6” print of your photograph by post, sponsored by ESL Photography (Snips). You can win this once only and you will also receive 10 points for your efforts. The Moderators’ (or perhaps Snip’s) decision on who might count as a beginner and which image is the best of the beginner’s images is absolutely final and no correspondence will be entered into. If no beginner has entered then the print will be awarded to the winning intermediate. There will be one print sent out for each challenge. (Snips will also enter the competition too as a forum member but does not want special treatment or favouritism!)



Sample Challenge

Subject: Sheltering from the Rain**
Deadline: Sunday 3rd September
First place 10 points – Second 7 points – Third 4 points
Up to five bonus points might be awarded to someone thinking “outside the box” *
Judging – by all members by Sunday 10th September

Please upload the image directly to the forum and please do not link from a hosting site. Linked images will be removed.
Images must be unique to the competition, and not have been posted elsewhere on the forum.
EXIF must be included – photographs to be taken after Tuesday 27th July

* This particular subject might include many similar photographs of people sheltering in bus stops. The photograph judged 5th for example might be of a bird under a leaf so this might be awarded 3 points but if all the photographs are quite varied then no extra points will be awarded – the decision will be taken after the challenge has closed.

** This particular challenge would probably not be set because some countries in the world could be suffering a drought or in the UK we probably only have 2-3 days a year when people might spend a few minutes sheltering from rain – it’s been shown as an example only
 

wornish

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So what is the first real challenge and when will it be announced?
 

Snips

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So what is the first real challenge and when will it be announced?
Not decided yet what the first challenge is but it should be announced and started next week.

You'll have seen the rather busy thread on ideas for the forum with different competitions - that thread is due to be closed soon and I came up with this idea quite a long time ago but some thoughts in that thread led me to adapting this competition.

There will be two new threads fairly soon, one will be the first challenge and when the number of entries are sorted out the league table will be started in a different thread.
 

wornish

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Not decided yet what the first challenge is but it should be announced and started next week.

You'll have seen the rather busy thread on ideas for the forum with different competitions - that thread is due to be closed soon and I came up with this idea quite a long time ago but some thoughts in that thread led me to adapting this competition.

There will be two new threads fairly soon, one will be the first challenge and when the number of entries are sorted out the league table will be started in a different thread.
Good luck, my only advice is to keep the rules simple. Look forward to giving it a try.
 

Classicbiker

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Looks good I will deffo give it a go
 

Mj224

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Be good to a Challenge area on the Home page, so we can remember what's on and when...(for us who forget that is..:()
 

Snips

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Looks good I will deffo give it a go
Thank you - me too :)
Be good to a Challenge area on the Home page, so we can remember what's on and when...(for us who forget that is..:()
I'll be plugging it in the early weeks and want to keep it quite active so you shouldn't have much chance to forget what's going on :grin:
 

Paul Mitchell

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Seems pretty good. All except the point system. Seems complicated and arbitrary. Each photo will get a point for each position their photo places. Out of 14 entries top pick gets 14 points. If lowest entry gets 0 then 0 it is. 5th place will get 5 points. That seems simple enough. Let the challenge begin.
 

hooferinsane

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In terms of advanced, intermediate, and beginner are you going to go by what is in the members profile Ed, as this is one thing members quite often don’t amend when they join. (I know you did say the decision could be made by yourself/mods)?
 

Paul Mitchell

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Does the point system make any sense to anyone, or is it just me? Why should every person who enters get the number of points equal the total pics entered? Say there are 10 entries, youre saying each person gets 10 points. Why? It could be any number as long as everyone gets the same amount. So 0 is also a good all round number. You dont get points for merely participating, you get the number of points your entry placed in the competition. In that way the separation of points wont be that great. I dont like to see any entry get 0 votes and thus 0 points but it should be a reason to strive harder and come up with something better. I got 0 in the last contest and it doesnt make me want to give up. And hooferinsane's comment about the status of members being beginner, intermediate or advanced. That should be thrown out the window because its not based on anything that is reliable. Anybody of advanced age who has used a camera for 40 plus years can put themselves down as a beginner. Just treat everyone equally with no special treatment for anyone. And as Snips says he wants to enter the contests as a member with no special treatment or favouritism....well thats where my suggestion of anonymity comes in when posting the image. Is there a way that images can be posted to a central place and then the admin reposts for everyone to see, leaving out who the photographer is? After voting is completed and the winner is announced then all the photographers are revealed.
 

Mj224

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Hows about points for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, maybe 8, 6 and 4 points respectively, and a single point for all other entries.

That would encourage entries, and give some reward to the runners up...

Just a thought...:D
 

hooferinsane

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The Moderators’ (or perhaps Snip’s) decision on who might count as a beginner and which image is the best of the beginner’s images is absolutely final and no correspondence will be entered into. If no beginner has entered then the print will be awarded to the winning intermediate.
And hooferinsane's comment about the status of members being beginner, intermediate or advanced. That should be thrown out the window because its not based on anything that is reliable.
Ed (Snips ) actually mentioned this reading his opening post, so it's just a question how the 'experience' status was going to be clarified
 

DonS

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Hows about points for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, maybe 8, 6 and 4 points respectively, and a single point for all other entries.

That would encourage entries, and give some reward to the runners up...

Just a thought...:D
I like the idea of points for participating, that could get more entries,
 

Paul Mitchell

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Whatever you decide the contest should be almost self running. The only things the mods or admins should be doing is just announcing the subject/theme and announcing the entrant identities and positions after the final vote. To be fair and transparent there should be no arbitrary decisions that are open for discussion such as giving out points. I am definitely old school. You earn what you deserve. Unfortunately we live in a time now where everyone gets a red ribbon or a few points to make them feel good. My kids are special needs and when they were in school or doing Special Olympics they came home all the time proud as punch to show me their ribbons. For coming in near the bottom of the list. Ive had talks wiith them about trying harder and earning a ribbon as opposed to just being given one. They understand that. I hope the members here understand that as well. So handing out a few points to everyone to keep them happy is unnecessary. Keeping in mind that turnout is pretty dismall so if there are 10 entries there will be entries 1 to 10. After voting there could be multiple ties. So say there are 2 in first, 2 in second, and 1 each in positions 3 to 8. The first 2 would get 10 points each, the second 2 would get 9 points each, and each of the others would get 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, and 3 points respectively. The only way a person would get 0 is if there were 10 entries and there were no ties in any of the positions. That should satisfy your desire for everyone to get a point or 2. Now Ive been pondering this for a while. If you have exceptionally good photographers and some that are so so, then how do we equal the playing field. Perhaps a penalty for winning. The person with the first position entry may be prevented from entering the next contest. Doesnt seem fair, but to the person with 0 or 1 points maybe it will to them. Im not suggesting this but its one way to equal the playing field for those who feel their skills arent enough.
 

hooferinsane

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miscellaneous.JPG

Edward (Snips) is about post this competition in the Miscellaneous Competition forum, which as you can see from the title in the miscellaneous competitions forum (as screenshot above) 'if you have a challenge then post it here'.
Any member can post a challenge, using whatever voting system/criteria they decide (unless of course it was totally unreasonable, which this isn't). Any members that may not agree with the voting system are welcome to start and run their own competition and use their own voting criteria (again unless it is totally unreasonable) in this section.
Edward (Snips) has put in a lot of work on this, and the mods would like to thank him for running this and the offer of a prize in part of the competition.
 

wornish

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This is kind of getting a bit crazy.
Too much overthinking going on IMHO.

If there is to be a new competition can we just get on with it?
If it's good then the entries will grow if not then so be it.
 

Snips

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If there is to be a new competition can we just get on with it?
Would love to but waiting for the dust to settle first :) As said above, it will be next week
If it's good then the entries will grow if not then so be it.
Couldn't agree more!

Re the other comments, many thanks for all the input. It's bedtime for me now but just to say (without reading through everything above again) I want to give a print to someone producing the best image who we (me/the moderators) think is a "beginner" and if there are no beginners entered then an intermediate. I've a fairly good idea who the beginners are and the moderators do too but I don't want to get hung up on this at all.

The prize is to encourage beginners and new members to participate and not be too intimidated by the better quality images - I remember being excited when I won my first print and I still have it.

The idea of awarding points just for entering is to try and encourage more people to enter so at least they get something if they do participate. It has nothing to do with awarding losers. There are extra points for being 1st, 2nd and 3rd and in later challenges there will be other ways to win points too.

[Edit] I will think more about the points system and the pros and cons of the ideas
 

Snips

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I was going to launch this tonight but I'm without an internet connection so will do this tomorrow instead as I'd prefer to do this with a fully functioning computer as opposed to my mobile.
 

hooferinsane

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I was going to launch this tonight but I'm without an internet connection so will do this tomorrow instead as I'd prefer to do this with a fully functioning computer as opposed to my mobile.
Thanks Ed
 

tenchy

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One of the reasons I'm hardly active here anymore is because I am active in a very successful set of competitions for amateur radio. They are called activity contests and they are really successful as man are they active. Tuesday night I made 185 contacts in 2.5hours. On Saturday, from the top of the Black Mountains in a way better spot I made 162 contacts in 6 hours. And that was the most anyone in the contest made too!

I bring this up because having read the layout by Snips I can see the parallels. Not quite the same as ours has a club element but the principal is the same. In the activity contests we have a local club category where every entrant for the club gets points added to the club score, regardless if they are a table topper or also ran. It's particularly good for encouraging people to play. (btw Edward, Hereford have dominated for 3 or 4 years)
The scoring system mooted for me is clearly aimed to enhance participation. A regular entrant can amass points and still be competitive with an occasional superstar entry.
I see the thread for the first one, coffee ☕ time is up, I hope it takes off.
Tweaks may be found to be required (the bonus scoring on the radio contests has been evolved after some VERY heated discussions) but hat off to Snips and all involved for having a crack.
Wonder if my camera batteries actually still work?
 

wornish

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Have I missed the new competition? Can't see it anywhere.:confused:
 

wornish

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Thanks. I thought it was an entry for some other competition given the tag COMPETITION ENTRY. :)
It's certainly not obvious that's its a competion IMHO and I am sure will be missed by many people browsing.

Will go have a read.
 

DryDiggns

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I like this type of competition and have done similar before. It is fun to see different takes on the same subject.
 

Mj224

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I like this type of competition and have done similar before. It is fun to see different takes on the same subject.
Yes but these comps are hidden away in menus that many are either not aware of, or are lazy (moi) to look through the options. IMHO, these comps should be on the front (landing) page, so they are easy to see and goto......................just my 2p worth...:)
 
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