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Presenting Wedding Photos to Clients.

the voyager

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I had a 3 day wedding shoot, long but rewarding.
Got some great shots, and I am just working through them now.

My methodology is to work through, using my knowledge of what gives and image the wow factor, and picking out all the best ones as well as obvious portfolio shots for me. I aim to present about 300 to 400 images to the client. I maybe shot about 1600 to 1800 images. Right now I can spend between 3 to 5 minutes on a shot, some even more. I refuse to batch edit.
The client would like to see them all. I am going to delete a lot of the ones which are clearly not good enough, but allow them to go through the remaining shots and choose the more candid ones, any of these that they want I would batch edit.

What do you say to your clients, because it's not normal to present 2000 images is it! (unless they pay for it).??

Keen to learn!
 

MikeB

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"
I don't normally present all of the images I shoot to the client, rather I select what I feel are the best shots. I am making an exception here because you specifically asked to see all of the images.

On your left are the processed photos that I feel are the best images. On your right are the remaining images, that have not been processed."
------------------
I would also explain why I take so many photos
 

Roger S

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I have only done a couple of weddings, but plenty of family portrait shoots. The clients know that I'm constantly shooting but they have no idea how many almost duplicates, missed shots, or missed focus shots I have. I weed out the worst, edit the best and then present them with the ones I have chosen. If asked, I will show them the ones I didn't use, minus all the "not so useable" ones that are in the delete file.
 

Snips

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Another lack of wedding experience but they’re another “project”.

I go through all photos and only show what I think are not the worst e.g. blink of eyes, poor focusing and so on. As an aside it amazes me when an out of focus shot slips through the net that they are frequently bought. People like the moment captured (which is why I took the photo).

Each project is different though and the customers are all different with some insisting I show all the photographs but I still try to keep to my standards. One thing I do with my wedding shots is choose around 25 of my best for public viewing and the remainder are kept private for the families. At the end of the day I find that most people go for quality and not quantity. They’re interested in how many shots you take but are only keen on looking at the best ones.

Photographers are different too and one equine photographer I work for insist on only specific shots. All standing shots must have pricked ears, any jumping shot with the front feet too close to the ground are deleted and so on.

Three other equine photographers I’ve worked with are only too happy to have anything that might sell.
 

the voyager

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Cheers all.

A point on ownership.. The client has paid for wedding photography service, therefor they must first approve if we use any on websites or social media yes?!

I don't think I will have a problem with these ones, as I did at such a good price but there are shots of other people's kids for example, one in particular is going to land me a lot more work, would I have to get permission from the parents or the bride and groom? I mean, they are of an exceptional standard in my opinion! I will share a few here when I get permission.
 

Southern Gent

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I've shot a few weddings over the years, not something I'm really interested in doing, because between the bride, mothers, grandmothers, aunts, bridesmaids....trying to run the show, it's not my idea of a fun time. That said when I do, I make it clear up front what my shot list will be, and how many proofs I will provide for them to choose from. How ever many shots it takes to complete that shot list is irrelevant. I don't do file dumps under any circumstances, because while it might be their wedding, it's "my copyrighted" work, and my choice as to how I want it displayed. I only present for proofs the ones I feel meet my qualifications for final editing if they choose it. If they want a file dump, I suggest to them to buy disposable cameras for those in attendance and have at it.
 

Southern Gent

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Cheers all.

A point on ownership.. The client has paid for wedding photography service, therefor they must first approve if we use any on websites or social media yes?!

I don't think I will have a problem with these ones, as I did at such a good price but there are shots of other people's kids for example, one in particular is going to land me a lot more work, would I have to get permission from the parents or the bride and groom? I mean, they are of an exceptional standard in my opinion! I will share a few here when I get permission.
Different countries have different laws, but here I make it a practice to include a model release in my paperwork. The laws are a little touchy where they've paid you for a service. Shots of those in attendance fall under the "reasonable expectation of privacy" clause. I don't obtain releases from them if I'm just posting to social media as "news or information". If however, if I intend to use any of those in attendance in some manner that could be construed to be with the intention of profit (advertising, business promotion, etc), that's considered commercial use, and I obtain a model release. My advise on kids is to shy away from posting.
 

the voyager

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I've shot a few weddings over the years, not something I'm really interested in doing, because between the bride, mothers, grandmothers, aunts, bridesmaids....trying to run the show, it's not my idea of a fun time. That said when I do, I make it clear up front what my shot list will be, and how many proofs I will provide for them to choose from. How ever many shots it takes to complete that shot list is irrelevant. I don't do file dumps under any circumstances, because while it might be their wedding, it's "my copyrighted" work, and my choice as to how I want it displayed. I only present for proofs the ones I feel meet my qualifications for final editing if they choose it. If they want a file dump, I suggest to them to buy disposable cameras for those in attendance and have at it.
Good points, but if someone is paying you £1400 a day, surly they have some right to see what they paid for...??
 

Roger S

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A point on ownership.. The client has paid for wedding photography service, therefor they must first approve if we use any on websites or social media yes?!.....
This point should have been written into your contract. It is not a public event, nor a public venue so you have no valid excuse to publish images that you were contracted to take. I make sure that I keep the right to use any photos I shoot there in my own web site.
 

the voyager

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This point should have been written into your contract. It is not a public event, nor a public venue so you have no valid excuse to publish images that you were contracted to take. I make sure that I keep the right to use any photos I shoot there in my own web site.
Couldn't follow your lead there, so you just say any pictures I take will be used as promo?
 

Southern Gent

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Good points, but if someone is
paying you £1400 a day, surly they have some right to see what they paid for...??
Yup they do, they get to see what you told them you would provide, that's why it's important to state at the very beginning what you'll provide. Did you specify in writing what you'd provide??? Using your numbers you say you aim to provide 400 images at which you'll spend up to 5 mins each on editing, that translates into 33 hrs. Now what if they come back and tell you they want all 2000 are you going to spend the additional 133 hours to edit those as well??? If that happens that £1400 isn't looking like so much. Photography services is not a tangible product, something they can look in a book and choose model #1, without specifications of what you are providing you're opening yourself up to a real mess.

And here's something else, let's say you give them the 2000 images without any editing, and they go to the local discount pharmacy chain to have them printed. Then they start showing them to friends, family, acquaintances, and people say who was the photographer. Next thing they start thinking they paid you £1400 for snapshots, that Uncle Buck would've done for free......There goes your referrals.
 
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Roger S

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Couldn't follow your lead there, so you just say any pictures I take will be used as promo?
Short answer is "Yes". The longer answer is to simply state that any pictures MAY be used as promotional material on my own web site.
 

the voyager

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Yup they do, they get to see what you told them you would provide, that's why it's important to state at the very beginning what you'll provide. Did you specify in writing what you'd provide??? Using your numbers you say you aim to provide 400 images at which you'll spend up to 5 mins each on editing, that translates into 33 hrs. Now what if they come back and tell you they want all 2000 are you going to spend the additional 133 hours to edit those as well??? If that happens that £1400 isn't looking like so much. Photography services is not a tangible product, something they can look in a book and choose model #1, without specifications of what you are providing you're opening yourself up to a real mess.

And here's something else, let's say you give them the 2000 images without any editing, and they go to the local discount pharmacy chain to have them printed. Then they start showing them to friends, family, acquaintances, and people say who was the photographer. Next thing they start thinking they paid you £1400 for snapshots, that Uncle Buck would've done for free......There goes your referrals.
They are not getting 2000 images, and I charged less than 1400 for this job. I am fully aware the damages that comes from handing over images that did not pass your own level of quality, that is why I will not and will explain the very reason that I provide life memories, not snapshots!
 

Southern Gent

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They are not getting 2000 images, and I charged less than 1400 for this job. I am fully aware the damages that comes from handing over images that did not pass your own level of quality, that is why I will not and will explain the very reason that I provide life memories, not snapshots!
There you go, sounds like you have an answer to your original question! It's an unfortunate reality that people today in this age of cell phones with all their little gadgets, have an irrational understanding of the the time, creativity and experience required to take and produce a good image.
 

Stemmy

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All my clients see the images I choose to show them. They are never in control of that.

If they insisted one all the images I would feeling that they dont trust my judgement.

They wouldnt be clients of mine.

On my contract there is a section that states I can use any of their images for website or marketing material.
 

the voyager

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There you go, sounds like you have an answer to your original question! It's an unfortunate reality that people today in this age of cell phones with all their little gadgets, have an irrational understanding of the the time, creativity and experience required to take and produce a good image.
Yes you really can't learn it overnight unless you are truly gifted, and even then still not overnight.
 

Southern Gent

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Yes you really can't learn it overnight unless you are truly gifted, and even then still not overnight.

I'm not gifted, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. LOL Don't know about there but we have a lot of "Moms with cameras" here that present themselves as "photographers". They'll do outdoor sessions somewhere for $25 and give you a CD with 20 to 30 unedited SOOC JPEG. They usually don't last long but it seems like for every one that quits, there's three more waiting to "cash in" on all the money to be made in photography.

I priced a small product job last week, the woman had some custom jewelry pieces she was selling online. She realized how bad her current images were, not sharp, and lacking detail. I quoted her $75/hr estimating no more then 10 hrs for studio and editing, (probably would have taken less then 8, but I like to have a little cushion) I thought she was going to croak. Guess she went back to Mom with camera.
 

the voyager

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I'm not gifted, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. LOL Don't know about there but we have a lot of "Moms with cameras" here that present themselves as "photographers". They'll do outdoor sessions somewhere for $25 and give you a CD with 20 to 30 unedited SOOC JPEG. They usually don't last long but it seems like for every one that quits, there's three more waiting to "cash in" on all the money to be made in photography.

I priced a small product job last week, the woman had some custom jewelry pieces she was selling online. She realised how bad her current images were, not sharp, and lacking detail. I quoted her $75/hr estimating no more then 10 hrs for studio and editing, (probably would have taken less then 8, but I like to have a little cushion) I thought she was going to croak. Guess she went back to Mom with camera.
Most industries have become Democratised, or my favourite way of putting it is The Mcdonaldization of (in our case) Photography. Every mum, dad, son, aunty, uncle Jim have set up shop. And power to them too I say. This just makes it more interesting to navigate through the minefield. In the end though years and years of practice and inquiry will triumph. You can't just understand composition and manipulation of light so it becomes a second nature. Imagine giving 90% of the "Natural Light Wedding Photographers" a speed light, they'd poop themselves instantly.

I have always stayed humble, probably too humble, I never called myself a photographer for a long time, thought the title was too high for me, I knew I had a lot more to learn before I could start taking people's money. I used to just say, "oh, I just press the button" while Aunt Jeanie and Uncle Jim who just bought a second hand d90 and kit lens off ebay are on socials pimping their cat pictures for £$100 an hour!

I suppose you just have to do what you do. I'm happy with where I am at with it now, but need to invest in better glass as I hire them when I get paid work!
 
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Snips

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... I never called myself a photographer for a long time, thought the title was too high for me, I knew I had a lot more to learn before I could start taking people's money. I used to just say, "oh, I just press the button" while Aunt Jeanie and Uncle Jim who just bought a second hand d90 and kit lens off ebay are on socials pimping their cat pictures for £$100 an hour!

I suppose you just have to do what you do. I'm happy with where I am at with it now, but need to invest in better glass as I hire them when I get paid work!
I am enjoying reading your posts and your quiet and positive attitude and you should benefit from the latter too. I came on to the forum as someone who knew photography and soon discovered I had knowledge of pressing a shutter button but not much other skill.

Following that was several months of learning and amazingly (to me) I began selling photographs on a regular and increasingly frequent basis. I’ve still a long way to go as I discovered last year when starting wedding photography but the reports sound good so far. Loads to learn still but I enjoy photography and the constant challenge to try for a better photograph. Just like golfers strive to play their best round every time they go out on the course.

Good kit helps in no uncertain manner and is well worth the investment. I use Canon 6D’s Mk1 - there are better cameras but mine hold their own and I’ve never found them lacking for printing or anything. I do spend a fair amount on lenses though, as advised by most forum members and am not afraid of buying used equipment.
 
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