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Sony A1

Activ8

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Thanks for the speedy reply, maybe just run with the A7riv which is expensive enough for me.
I love my A7riv which with the 24-105mm is a great do most things camera especially given the 26mp crop mode giving effectively 24-150mm. The AF is also good enough for BIF and general sports but in the real world its 10fps drops to around 7fps (lens and setting dependant). Focus tracking is not quite as sticky as my A9ii but not bad... Just don't use the A7riv with the Sony 200-600mm zoom as there seems to be a firmware issue between the two... It is the only lens/body combo I have ever had an issue with confirmed by many others including resellers but denied by Sony for now!
 

Ayrshire Bob

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I love my A7riv which with the 24-105mm is a great do most things camera especially given the 26mp crop mode giving effectively 24-150mm. The AF is also good enough for BIF and general sports but in the real world its 10fps drops to around 7fps (lens and setting dependant). Focus tracking is not quite as sticky as my A9ii but not bad... Just don't use the A7riv with the Sony 200-600mm zoom as there seems to be a firmware issue between the two... It is the only lens/body combo I have ever had an issue with confirmed by many others including resellers but denied by Sony for now!
Good to hear about the 24-105 as I have this lens, and you mention the crop mode, which is one of reasons why I'm drawn to the A7Riv, but I would like to hear if any thoughts on the 61mp, as this did scare me a bit, if I understand it right, it can be a bit of a challenge to get the hand held stuff just right, but what also is of interest is, you say there seems to be a firmware issue with the Sony 200-600mm zoom, another lens I have, got to say I have looked online the likes of Flickr and the Sony A7riv and the 200-600mm images where to me very impressive, but I take your point that this is denied by Sony, I have moved over from Canon 7D mk2 and used the sigma 150-600mm on it for the likes of Air Shows, found it very good, but wanted to move over to Mirrorless, because I think that's where I will end up.
 

Activ8

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Good to hear about the 24-105 as I have this lens, and you mention the crop mode, which is one of reasons why I'm drawn to the A7Riv, but I would like to hear if any thoughts on the 61mp, as this did scare me a bit, if I understand it right, it can be a bit of a challenge to get the hand held stuff just right, but what also is of interest is, you say there seems to be a firmware issue with the Sony 200-600mm zoom, another lens I have, got to say I have looked online the likes of Flickr and the Sony A7riv and the 200-600mm images where to me very impressive, but I take your point that this is denied by Sony, I have moved over from Canon 7D mk2 and used the sigma 150-600mm on it for the likes of Air Shows, found it very good, but wanted to move over to Mirrorless, because I think that's where I will end up.
The 61mp is not really an issue but if you want pixel sharp shots you need to be aware of what shutter speed you are using as you can get some micro blur going on which if you downsize it to 24 or 30mp seems to go away in most cases. The Sony 24-105mm is probably the best in that zoom range of any make including Canon L glass and is the only one I know that is sharp at both ends. The firmware issue with the 200-600 does seem setting related and you can get really good images but you need to go into mode 3 stabilisation and not use lock on tracking. However you can use tracking and any mode on an A7riii and get perfect images on the same lens you can also use all the settings with no problem on the A7riv on the 100-400 with the 1.4x tc or the 600mm f4 with no problem. It seems to be a certain combination of settings and that lens on the A7riv that seems to cause the issue. If it was mainly airshow/sports you are after the A9/A9ii is a better bet if you can live with 24mp. The autofocus on the A9 is very close to that of a true sports camera 1Dxii / Nikon D5. However the A7riv with the 100-400mm makes a really good airshow combo giving you 100-600mm in 26mp crop mode at f5.6 in quite a small package.
 

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The 61mp is not really an issue but if you want pixel sharp shots you need to be aware of what shutter speed you are using as you can get some micro blur going on which if you downsize it to 24 or 30mp seems to go away in most cases. The Sony 24-105mm is probably the best in that zoom range of any make including Canon L glass and is the only one I know that is sharp at both ends. The firmware issue with the 200-600 does seem setting related and you can get really good images but you need to go into mode 3 stabilisation and not use lock on tracking. However you can use tracking and any mode on an A7riii and get perfect images on the same lens you can also use all the settings with no problem on the A7riv on the 100-400 with the 1.4x tc or the 600mm f4 with no problem. It seems to be a certain combination of settings and that lens on the A7riv that seems to cause the issue. If it was mainly airshow/sports you are after the A9/A9ii is a better bet if you can live with 24mp. The autofocus on the A9 is very close to that of a true sports camera 1Dxii / Nikon D5. However the A7riv with the 100-400mm makes a really good airshow combo giving you 100-600mm in 26mp crop mode at f5.6 in quite a small package.
Does the micro blur go away using the electronic shutter?

Given the very fine pixel pitch - at what point does diffraction start to visibly degrade IQ?
 

Ayrshire Bob

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The 61mp is not really an issue but if you want pixel sharp shots you need to be aware of what shutter speed you are using as you can get some micro blur going on which if you downsize it to 24 or 30mp seems to go away in most cases. The Sony 24-105mm is probably the best in that zoom range of any make including Canon L glass and is the only one I know that is sharp at both ends. The firmware issue with the 200-600 does seem setting related and you can get really good images but you need to go into mode 3 stabilisation and not use lock on tracking. However you can use tracking and any mode on an A7riii and get perfect images on the same lens you can also use all the settings with no problem on the A7riv on the 100-400 with the 1.4x tc or the 600mm f4 with no problem. It seems to be a certain combination of settings and that lens on the A7riv that seems to cause the issue. If it was mainly airshow/sports you are after the A9/A9ii is a better bet if you can live with 24mp. The autofocus on the A9 is very close to that of a true sports camera 1Dxii / Nikon D5. However the A7riv with the 100-400mm makes a really good airshow combo giving you 100-600mm in 26mp crop mode at f5.6 in quite a small package.
Thanks for the advice with regards to the micro blur, and to be honest with you, I have never use mode 3 on the 200-600mm, also interesting when you mention the 100-400 in the crop mode, sounds to me to be a better option than the 200-600, and got to be a good bit lighter, as holding onto my lens all day can be a bit tiresome, will have a look at the 100-400, as apposed to the 600mm f4, to be honest I never liked the fixed length, albeit the shots would probably better, have always worked with the zoom lenes.
 

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Does the micro blur go away using the electronic shutter?

Given the very fine pixel pitch - at what point does diffraction start to visibly degrade IQ?
TBH the microblur is dependant on a few things... shutter speed, focal length and technique. So handholding a 600mm at 1/250 will give you microblur on the 61mp (even with good technique) where the 24mp will not show it. I dont think it has more to do with pixel density towards the edges of the frame where ibis and OSS cannot correct as much. I dont see this on my RX10 iv at 600mm at 1/250 as even though it has a higher pixel density than the A7mkiv it is able to compensate due to the smaller sensor. Diffraction only seems to be visible from f16 onward but I only have decent glass... maybe on an older lens it may come in earlier...
 

Activ8

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Thanks for the advice with regards to the micro blur, and to be honest with you, I have never use mode 3 on the 200-600mm, also interesting when you mention the 100-400 in the crop mode, sounds to me to be a better option than the 200-600, and got to be a good bit lighter, as holding onto my lens all day can be a bit tiresome, will have a look at the 100-400, as apposed to the 600mm f4, to be honest I never liked the fixed length, albeit the shots would probably better, have always worked with the zoom lenes.
The 100-400 GM focuses much closer than the 200-600mm and is a good bit smaller in the bag.
 

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I'll have to rob a bank!
 

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One of the reasons that the A1 is so expensive is that the digital sensor readout speed is about 1/240 sec. Most digital cameras have a readout speed of about 1/60 sec. A faster readout speed reduces the effects of rolling shutter - a significant issue for electronic shutter exposures.

In fact the A1's readout speed is so fast that one can safely use electronic shutter in most situations, even where there is movement. The A9 II has a readout speed of 1/160 sec while the rest of Sony's cameras have a readout speed similar to most digital sensors on the market today.
 

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Very good point Mike....does this make it a niche proposition attractive only to those who need electronic shutter...
 

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Very good point Mike....does this make it a niche proposition attractive only to those who need electronic shutter...
Certainly reducing rolling shutter would be a good sales pitch, but I've not really seen Sony make a big issue of it. While sensor readout speed may be important for some, it really doesn't have anything to do with image quality. For everybody else just using a mechanical shutter will do as good of a job. It may be that they did it just because they can, though pushing technology makes for expensive products. The Arri Alexa Mini’s digital sensor is even faster at about 1/300 sec readout speed and that costs around $60,000 USD.
 

Activ8

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Certainly reducing rolling shutter would be a good sales pitch, but I've not really seen Sony make a big issue of it. While sensor readout speed may be important for some, it really doesn't have anything to do with image quality. For everybody else just using a mechanical shutter will do as good of a job. It may be that they did it just because they can, though pushing technology makes for expensive products. The Arri Alexa Mini’s digital sensor is even faster at about 1/300 sec readout speed and that costs around $60,000 USD.
I believe the readout speed was increased so the camera can shoot on electronic shutter and be tuned to indoor stadium lighting to avoid banding. If you shoot with electronic shutter only you can have high speed and zero blackout time to enable easier tracking of moving action but light flicker has always caused banding in the past on electronic shutter cameras but apparently this solves it.
 

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Am I understanding that you don't really have to be a good photographer as long as you have a really good camera?
 

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Am I understanding that you don't really have to be a good photographer as long as you have a really good camera?
No, the camera is simply a tool that a photographer uses to create photos. The better the photographer the better the images taken regardless of the camera being used.

Computational photography, like that found in some high-end smartphones, do a significant amount of computer processing to make an image look good but many other factors contribute to whether the image itself is good.
 

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Am I understanding that you don't really have to be a good photographer as long as you have a really good camera?
as long as you compose well I imagine a high end camera will do a lot of heavy lifting
 

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but light flicker has always caused banding in the past on electronic shutter cameras but apparently this solves it.
As long as the flicker has a rate faster than the sensor readout speed, you will get banding - it just may not be as bad as with slower readout speeds
 

Activ8

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As long as the flicker has a rate faster than the sensor readout speed, you will get banding - it just may not be as bad as with slower readout speeds
The A9ii and A1 have flicker sensors to sync up with the lights to help eliminate it. The A1 has more adjustment available than my A9ii and my A7riv does not have any sensing at all.
 

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The A9ii and A1 have flicker sensors to sync up with the lights to help eliminate it. The A1 has more adjustment available than my A9ii and my A7riv does not have any sensing at all.
Yes, but the fact remains that as long as the flicker has a rate faster than the sensor readout speed, you will get banding - this is true also with mechanical shutter regarding shutter speed.
 
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